Calling progressive tax systems institutionalized theft is incredibly clever, and incredibly false.
No one who has wealth created it by themselves. You don't print your own money, you don't extract wealth from a vaccum. Wealth is built by extracting that wealth from a shared economy. Asking those who were able to extract the most wealth to help the most in paying to protect this shared system, and help those who were exploited by it, is not theft.
You are being intellectually dishonest. I would not be surprised if deliberately so.
> Wealth is built by extracting that wealth from a shared economy.
This is wrong. First wealth is not extracted from people...it is created from a voluntary exchange. Think about why people handed over money to the "wealthy" in the first place. It was in exchange for a good or service that made that person wealthy where wealth is defined by being better off than they were before. Money is just a unit of exchange that we use to move wealth around. Following this logic the wealthy have already paid their dues so to speak by making other people more wealthy.
Again they do not EXTRACT wealth, they GENERATE wealth for their customers. People with a ton of money should be applauded for delivering so much wealth to society not vilified as if they stole it from them.
For the most part I agree with this explanation, but it does not apply to certain cases such as inheritance. Unfortunately the tendency to portray all wealthy people as entitled heirs has been around since the days of explicit aristocracy.
how does it not apply for inheritances? That money that was inherited came from delivering a good or service in a voluntary exchange. Just because the money was passed down a generation doesnt mean that money was acquired any different way.
I think you may be trying to point out that the inheritance isnt deserved because the receiver didnt create the wealth. I see inheritances as how the rich choose to spend their money. Some give it to charity, some give it to their kids (which could be a form of charity), some spend it frivolously. Doenst change the fact that the money was generated by creating wealth in the first place.
I assume this question is to bait me into a debate about equal opportunity, discrimination, and wealthy privilege. I do not contend that there aren't issues to solve in these arenas.
So for the simple economic answer:
Poor people are poor because they consume more wealth than they create (or at least break even).
Again as to not offend, I fully understand that economic well-being is still dependent on circumstance to a degree that needs to be addressed. But this fact does not change the economic answer to why poor people are poor.
Wealth can be consumed and destroyed. If you consume/destroy more than you create and/or trade for, you have a net loss which isn't anyone else's fault.
I agree with you, but with reservations. Despite significant evidence to the contrary, there are those who, far from extracting wealth, actually create it by their brains, hard work and luck. If we can acknowledge that, we can still argue that the shared commonwealth through which they worked was indispensable to their achievements. From each according to his/her ability may be thought of as Marxist, but the idea predated Marx by at least 1800 years and still makes sense.
> Asking those who were able to extract the most wealth to help the most in paying to protect this shared system, and help those who were exploited by it
That is already what happens. e.g. the top 10% by income already contribute >70% of the total federal income tax revenue.
That's only income tax. When you include all federal taxes, the top 10% by income gives a still considerable 54%, but much lower than the 70% that is generally claimed.
Not dishonest. It is possible, in fact, for people to have moral views which differ from yours in good faith. This warrants respect, not insults.
I create wealth by pure thought. Sure that sounds stupid to some, but it's quite true: with about a thousand dollars' worth of borrowed equipment, I sit here writing software to do things useful to my employer. I am not "extracting wealth", I am creating it, organizing electron flows to do things useful to clients, things they are willing to pay for whereby both of us (client & developer) benefit. It is my right to write software, my client's right to use that software, and our right to work out an exchange of representations of wealth. The only "extraction" happens by contracting the exchange of one thing/service for another, facilitated by the abstraction of currency; this creates more wealth in the system, leaving both in a better place than they would be otherwise.
My country's government was created to facilitate the exercise of rights by delegating limited powers to government. Insofar as the "shared system" goes, taxation exists to fund those limited powers, and arguably provide a minimal safety net to the truly destitute (insofar as charity is unable to). Beyond that, ownership is a respected & protected right, and the economy functions by people creating things to own (wealth) and exchanging representations of that wealth (money).
What you & other "wealth inequality" agitators "ask" for is theft, insofar as it demands - under threat of violence by those unrelated to that wealth - those who create or negotiate more wealth than others must, with no objective basis in ownership & contract, give to those who have done nothing for it.
I understand what we have is not a perfect system; that imperfection is a consequence of what some deem "original sin" (adjust terminology as your values see fit to match the point). Bad as it may be, it is better than any other system wherein one group extorts wealth from others without agreement or moral right thereto. Just because one manages to leverage opportunity better than others does not mean those others can "rectify" the situation by saying "we outnumber you, we've decided what you own belongs to us, and if you don't hand it over we'll do horrible things to you."
Yes, progressive taxation is institutionalized theft. Taxation should fund the costs of government carrying out limited powers to facilitate rights as delegated by the national constitution; insofar as income taxation is the current method, it should be blind (as justice should be). The counterpart to your notion that the wealthy exploit the system, is that the wealth pump the system too: their wealth is not squirreled away out of reach of the shared economy, it is rammed right back in thru investments, creation of markets for luxury goods, and prolific charity; the evil you impute is at minimum balanced by the good it creates. Every dollar should be taxed equally, as (on the whole) those who acquire more income do much in the shared economy with it. Insofar as sheer poverty fits in, I'll acquiesce to deducting a minimum income; if you're better off than objectively poor, you can do your fair share too.
Those agitating about "wealth inequality" always fail to objectively address the charity which the rich give to. Just because someone isn't giving money via taxation doesn't mean they're not doing tremendous good; confiscating more by taxation reduces what they can and do give by other ways.
And, just to hammer the point home yet another way (however palatable it may or not be): in a well-armed population, "majority rules" is not sufficient grounds for confiscation. There are a LOT of people prepared to fight back against the self-appointed redistributors of wealth. They know the consequences, so don't want to go there, but will if it comes to that.
Considering most of what you post is full of insults and attacks on people who have moral views which differ from yours in good faith, I would suggest you start at home with this advice. "I think the poors should stay poor because they're worthless while I create wealth, and I'm prepared to shoot anyone who tries to implement a contrary policy, be warned" is not a reasoned debate.
The American Revolution was fought in large part over tax rates (and much lower ones than we're subject to now). Confiscate enough of one's fairly-earned wages and and he'll fight back.
No one who has wealth created it by themselves. You don't print your own money, you don't extract wealth from a vaccum. Wealth is built by extracting that wealth from a shared economy. Asking those who were able to extract the most wealth to help the most in paying to protect this shared system, and help those who were exploited by it, is not theft.
You are being intellectually dishonest. I would not be surprised if deliberately so.