Congrats on beating HP Z2 Mini G1a and Nvidia Project Digits to market with 128GB of unified memory for LLMs, with bonus Framework port flexibility and a better price than Apple equivalents.
Does the desktop have a discrete physical TPM chip (needed for DRTM support on Windows/Linux/Qubes)? At present, AMD's PSP firmware emulates a "mobile" fTPM that does not support SKINIT.
Would you consider a future model with AMD Ryzen AI Max "Pro" SoC, which has additional security features?
We've been moving to fTPM (AMD's Pluton TPU) in our last couple of generations, including on Framework Desktop. This is something where if we see strong demand to go back to dTPM that we can look at for future generations.
Virtualization: interrupts, vIOMMU, nested paging, GMET, SLAT
Security: memory encryption, Windows Device Guard, VBS, Secured Core
Management: DASH for rack/cluster
LLM opacity makes inference hardware a target for silent subversion and manipulation of LLM output. Ryzen PRO security features can be used to configure Linux and Windows systems that verify integrity on every system launch.
Sorry to cross your excellent questions, but it doesn’t seem they are beating HP Z2 mini G1a to market. HP announced first week of January that it will be “available in spring”, while now framework announced for Q3.
It also seems HP will use the PRO version of the chip.
Kudos to framework for announcing the price and anchoring the market though!
Hi Nirav! I don't have a question but I just wanted to say I'm a superfan of Framework. I love my AMD 13!
I'm as cynical as it gets when it comes to tech companies, but Framework is the only one that seems to be on track to actually make the world a better place. Please keep doing what you're doing, stick to the mission, and I'll be a customer for life.
Also please make a smartphone so I can finally be on an all-Framework stack! :)
Before I get into my slew of questions, I am absolutely thrilled to see the return of late-90s transparent colored housings and the like! I'm also happy to see the updated non-Windows keyboard using the Framework logo rather than the generic "Super" text.
#1. Any insight into the 4x PCIe slot not having the end of the slot open which would allow the user to still physically insert 8x or 16x PCIe cards?
#2. Considering a lot of people would use the desktop with ethernet, is the wifi m.2 slot keyed to only accept wifi cards or can it fit a 3rd NVMe SSD as well? (maybe an idea to also pass along to the RISC-V mainboard guys)
#3. Lastly, any chance of revisiting the possibility of upgradable RAM on future desktop models i.e. Zen6 "big APU" if CAMM modules and the like aren't so bleeding edge? (it's looking like DDR6 for example might be CAMM-only) I mean, the fact that CAMM modules lay flat would open the opportunity to have them placed directly on the backside of the CPU which would theoretically result in very short trace lengths relative to front-side CAMM (let alone DIMM).
EDIT #4. Do these Ryzen Max chips support s1/s3 sleep like traditional socketable desktops? (though it sounds like it's starting to become less supported on AM5 sadly)
BONUS. Keyboard/touchpad module(s) for laptop(s) with three (left, middle, right) separate physical mouse buttons when? :P (Heck, on the 16" laptop there's already suspicious blank spaces both above and below the touchpad where they'd fit perfectly...)
There's absolutely nothing repairable about this computer. The motherboard is the entire computer. Only the storage can be replaced.
Do you plan to make computers which can actually be repaired? How exactly is the Framework Desktop any better than what Apple is doing with the Mac? I prefer to build my own machines. Why would I ever choose such a product which can't have parts replaced over something better which enables me to repair and upgrade my computer?
I ask because you were on "Buy now!" which also tackles greenwashing. I fail to see how this product is any better than all of the disposable junk sold by other companies (soldered RAM, soldered CPU, no PCI-E, no second NIC, no expandability of any kind).
Do you plan to sell products with PCI-E ports for dedicated GPUs and other devices?
Has Framework's customer support improved? Do you plan to do something about that? I've read countless posts from people who state they didn't receive a reply from Framework's customer support or that their hardware problems were never resolved. Why should a new customer trust your company?
It seems that the Framework Desktop 1st gen has a 4x PCI-E port. That's not exactly useful for a GPU. I've learned this after watching the LTT video.
> Why would I ever choose such a product which can't have parts replaced over something better which enables me to repair and upgrade my computer?
Because unified memory can't be socketed due to signal integrity issues. Framework asked AMD if there's a possibility and they investigated it, but found that it was just not possible.
I recommend watching the LinusTechTips video about the new framework products. They answered all your questions.
I'm aware of all the limitations they've brought up and how it was sold to the public. It's not as if someone forced them to build this product. They've chosen to build it this way.
This product goes against their principles of building products which are more environmentally friendly. They've done this for the laptops by not forcing people to buy a new laptop when their motherboard is dead or no longer fast enough for the software they run. It's also possible to replace the keyboard, the hinge, the battery, the RAM, the wifi module, the SSD, the touchpad, the case, the display and the expansion modules.
This Framework Desktop 1st gen can have the following components replaced: wifi, SSD, CPU fan, maybe the heatsink, some front panel IO modules, some decorative tiles on the front, the PSU and some parts of the case. A single broken regulator or failing memory chip forces the owner to replace the entire computer. One is forced to replace the entire thing if they have no option to get someone to find the relevant part, desolder the existing one and solder the new one on. This is also not an option for the CPU.
This means that any kind of damage forces the owner to buy another board with CPU and RAM soldered on it for about the same price as the entire thing with the case.
This Framework Desktop computer can be repaired just like most laptops with soldered RAM by replacing the entire motherboard with CPU and RAM. Why would I downgrade the desktop PC's repairability down to that of a laptop? The tradeoff isn't worth it for that price.
It is indeed better than the Mac. It's still 1000 times worse than a regular desktop PC which lets people swap RAM modules, the CPU, add a dGPU and so on.
Every time I consider one of your laptops, I see that there are no options for dedicated page up, page down, home, and end keys and those are deal breakers for me. I always end up with a Lenovo instead.
Would you consider adding keyboard options that include these keys?
FWIW I have a Framework 16, and the keyboards run QMK, so are reprogrammable. I have those keys at the top row of my macropad. They don't have labels and are in kind of a weird place, but probably not less weird than an average laptop.
Thanks for the answers. I prepurchased one now out of FOMO, though I'm still trying to figure out if I need to cancel the order or if I can trust that I'll actually be able to run stuff on it.
Regarding LLMs, am I going to be able to run quantized models? Doesn't have to support all quantization methods, but at least one of the popular quantization methods would need to work (e.g. GGUF or EXL2). I ask this because quantized models provide the most "bang for buck" in LLMs.
Regarding image generation, in real workflows there is typically a lot of dependencies (much more than in LLMs, and much more than in toy examples for image generation). I'm wondering how many of these dependencies will in practice be limited to NVIDIA and CUDA. For example, if you grab some popular ComfyUI Flux workflow from Reddit, are you able to actually run that on Framework Desktop?
Thank you for releasing an update to the Framework 13! I have an original 11th-gen Intel w/ Xe, and I'm now ready to upgrade (esp. the graphics). Stoked I'm still supported! Gonna grab a new screen, a new keyboard, and a new Ryzen!
Qubes OS doesn't run on any "fully capable x86 desktop".
It's based on Xen and hardware virtualization. There are very few desktop computers recommended to run Qubes [0]. Does Framework support suspend on Qubes? If it works, it could become popular in the Qubes Community.
I know a core developer (Marek) recently got a Framework 16 and submitted some fixes after early testing iirc - might be worthwhile chasing it with him
