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Reductive to pretend this boils down to "don't do events where bad politics" when we're talking about participant safety.

The entirety of the US would get a lifetime ban if we did that.


The point is there is no standard that is applied evenly. If there was then the funding would have been quickly denied with a documented reason attached. Stalling something which is going to get approved is just vindictiveness and collective punishment.

Have you not heard what it's like for an Arab or Muslim going through Israeli airports? Sure, they'll be detained and deported at most, but that's enough to exclude the idea of visiting to give a conference talk.


They're still not the same thing. TSA and Israeli customs might suck, but at worst you get turned around.

You manage to get past, let's say, Saudi customs as a trans person, get ready for jail time for the crime of existing. Not comparable.


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I was talking about international visitors actually. An LGBT resident of Zanzibar faces the same risks and oppressions whether they are at a Python conference or any other public place. So I don't see how that's relevant. What matters is (a) whether sponsoring would not further PSF's inclusivity goals because not all diverse types of people are welcome at the conference (b) whether the entire country morally deserves to be boycotted, like South Africa under apartheid.

Israeli airport security is racist and that's a fact. Being able to hide your religion is not always possible. PSF put religion, sexual orientation, national origin, and ethnicity on an equal footing in their consideration of diversity. https://www.python.org/community/diversity/

Yes, both Zanzibar and Israel are doing bad things and certain groups are affected. But these arguments only seem to come out when "people like us" are affected (LGBT, not Muslims) and when "people unlike us" are affecting (Africans, not Israelis. Not Floridians. Not...).


kind of missing the point, when it's not explicitly about citizens, the entire argument breaks apart especially if you consider west bank residents as potential speakers.

> as inalienable or difficult to hide as [...] biological sex

in case you extrapolated from my comment: i'm me, but other people are other people, and "the cis" can, in fact, not always tell. not even usually.


I guess you can always consider anyone excluded if you try.

Iranian, North Korean and Cuban speakers, for example, would not be able to travel to America (or any US-allied country) as there are very explicit sanctions placed on those countries.

Unless you're claiming Palestine is part of Israel and thus Palestinian citizens are Israeli ones, which would be a very controversial statement indeed.


It's just that you made a weird jump from "people attending Israel-hosted events" to "arab Israeli citizens" and I'm not sure how it happened. Though yes, as I said, I'd consider the difficulty there similar to going through TSA with an arabic name or wrong skin color.


That was my initial reaction, I mean was the PSF going to stop sponsoring all conferences in America when Trump won because they think building the wall makes Latino's feel unsafe? Singling out African nations like this does reek of colonial style paternalism


>Curiously, it's limited to non-white/non-Western countries. No one is sanctioning Israel for ethnic cleansing, textbook settler colonialism and apartheid going on since 1948.

This is more of a special privilege granted to Israel specifically.


> No one is sanctioning Israel for ethnic cleansing, textbook settler colonialism and apartheid going on since 1948.

Bad example since Jews are generally the ones who were getting cleansed. They were evicted by extreme Christians, then murdered by Nazi Germans (remember when US and Canada did not accept a shipful of Jews fleeing gas chambers so they had to go back and die?) and 1948 is when Arab League attacked the new country the next day after it was created.

Meanwhile Muslim people in Israel lead far better lives than in many surrounding countries with access to good healthcare, education etc. There is certainly no cleansing and people choose different schools because they speak different languages. There were certain moves like demoting Arabic from its previous role as official language 5 years ago but then how many countries in Middle East even recognize Hebrew? I've visited it once, you should perhaps visit the country yourself some time and see if you find all that terrible cleansing and apartheid. Maybe compare to all the Muslim countries around while you're at it, too.

A better example would be Qatar with its exit visas, not only not sanctioned but football world cup was held there


You clearly don't seem to see the difference between the condition of Jews today both within the state of Israel and outside of it, and the treatment of Jews in Europe after the rise of Nazism in Germany and elsewhere.

And you know what? Africans had nothing to do with it




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