Once you ship the dies overseas there is no going back.
Apropos Milwaukee: I had one of their circular saws which dropped from a roof that I was working on and I thought for sure it's a goner. Climbed down, not a mark on it, still dead straight. It must have landed very fortunately but still that was quite the drop. and you'd at least expect some impact damage. There was a scratch on it, but that may well have been there from before the drop and it didn't look like anything to do with impact.
I was an avid watcher of him for a few years until he went off the deep-end with covid and backing the canadian caravan. If he's gone back to what he was good at(teardowns of tools with explanations of the materials and manufacturing choices) I might start watching him again
Yeah he had funny delivery but the COVID conspiracy shit just made me think "is this guy actually saying anything useful or is he just saying it in a funny way?" Was pretty clear it was just the latter.
When he was pulling apart machines and showing me the differences between thermoset and thermomelt plastics, or how much fiberglass was in hardened plastics, or how cast magnesium worked I really enjoyed the guy.
I just didn’t enjoy him enough to deal with him going on a giant rant about how covid wasn’t real and the government was suppressing him from his god given right to breathe on us all.
I checked through his YouTube channel now and he seemed to have calmed down but I am not concerned about dropping him again if he goes crazy conspiracy theorist for his YouTube channel income once more. And that’s without counting how many videos he had showing off his basic chicken rearing or fucking around and failing at cnc milling
He went down the COVID conspiracy and Freedom Convoy rabbit hole? Damn, that sucks.
A surprising number of Canucks went down this rabbit hole, effectively losing years of their lives to these two movements and destroying their social networks and familial bonds.
One Canadian I knew cried for hours every day thinking her vaccinated extended family members were going to die. But hey, every date she listed as when I would die due to vaccine has passed and I'm still alive and healthy! So is her family, much of which is estranged from her now :c
Canada built a much tighter COVID vaccination verification and retail enforcement system than the USA. Vertical integration, few gray zones and such made those who opted out feel like the walls were closing in, as your province's health authority knew your vaccine status, restaurant demanded a valid, ID matching government supplied QR Code to allow seating, and the government was willing and able to enforce the law.
Comparatively, COVID restrictions were created state by state in the USA, and it was such a spotty patchwork that many who opted not to vaccinate lived much more normal lives than their counterparts in Canada.
Much like the universal Canadian deployment of tap and pay, present and pay (the credit/debit card never leaves your hand ever at restaurants or stores), PIN entry for all transactions that would require a signature in the USA, Canada is able to move faster and implement more effectively than the USA.
I really enjoyed how he red circled sub clauses of the sentences he think are important and ignores the rest of the sentence in other videos.
The guy is legitimately impressive at understanding how tools work and the manufacturing put into them, but he’s an asshole when it comes to dealing with society at large
Edit:
Really sells it that he fucks up the tooling on his cnc mill while giving a rant about freedom. This was during his “I can’t actually run a cnc mill yet but am learning how phase” but he was leaning on his previous expertise to sell his opinion on the caravan
>Canada built a much tighter COVID vaccination verification and retail enforcement system than the USA. Vertical integration, few gray zones and such made those who opted out feel like the walls were closing in, as your province's health authority knew your vaccine status, restaurant demanded a valid, ID matching government supplied QR Code to allow seating, and the government was willing and able to enforce the law.
I don't know how you can in one sentence refer to it as a "conspiracy theory" then in the next describe a massive in-the-open conspiracy to coerce people to get vaccinated against their will. Which prior to covid would have been considered a gross violation of medical ethics.
It was absolutely authoritarian response the Canadian govt took. Seizing the bank accounts of protesters and supporters? Abusing state of emergency provisions. Absolutely disgusting and horrifying. I mean your family member went a little overboard but the Freedom Convoy certainly didn't and stood up in the face of totalitarianism, when others cowered and yessired. So props to them.
Now reports and studies are coming out showing the Canadian govt and many other govts way over reacted to COVID.
I enjoyed the real talk and his support of the truckers in face of the abusive Canadian government. It was a pretty popular position there in any case. Boatloads of supporters out in subzero weather proved that. I definitely empathised with all of that. There's reports and studies coming out every week proving him right so....
I guess if you're a more sensitive, tow the line type you may have been put off.
Define boatloads. Canadians going out in subzero temperature also isn’t impressive. They’re used to the cold.
Your articles aren’t convincing me anymore that these were crazies. The second article for instance isn’t scientists saying lock downs weren’t needed but that it wasn’t scientists, and that committee of medical scientists in particular, role to be making wide sweeping changes to society. A completely reasonable position that doesn’t change whether or not lockdowns were needed
What is crazy about not wanting to suffer under an authoritarian regime that would seize your bank account and your livelihood for calling for a change in policy?
> I had one of their circular saws which dropped from a roof ...
Mine went under in Sandy. Still works. I once accidentally ran my old pipe handled hole hog on 240V for a few seconds. That thing also fell from ceiling height down sideways onto concrete, broke the rear handle, bent the hole saw but it kept working. That is a scary drill.
My only gripe with Milwaukee is their corded power tools were redesigned with more plastic so they discontinued the parts for them. My Magnum needs a new brush holder and my screw gun needs a trigger.
I really want their mag drill but too rich for my blood so I bought an import that is meh but does the job.
I'm with Stephenson on that one and it is the exact reason I ended up buying something smaller. I'm simply not strong enough to properly handle a hole hawg and I also don't have frequent enough work to keep it around doing nothing for extended periods of time. The 'smaller' version I have is a Bosch SDS-max capable drill that still makes short work of anything I throw at it but I can imagine jobs where it wouldn't be able to match the hole hawg's capabilities (or frankly, to even come near it). These aren't toys and you should get what works for you, not just what looks impressive.
Another brand I still like after many years is Makita, I've yet to have something made by them break from normal use. DeWalt has lost the plot, they are no longer worth the premium price. And with Bosch it's hit-and-miss you have to do a lot of online reading before making the call on one of their tools. They are very efficient in their use of materials and sometimes they can be too efficient and deliver a tool that isn't up to snuff. But they are always price competitive.
Significant differences between Bosch 'blue' and Bosch 'green'. Makita is universally top quality, I don't know what they sell in the USA though, but what I can get here in Europe is very well engineered and reliable. Fun story: we went through one jigsaw after another of 'A' brands back in the day when Makita was still not well established in Europe. Cutting fiberglass (which is kind of nasty stuff on mechanisms). Then we decided that if they're going to fail anyway let's get something cheap so that we won't cry when we have to toss it. Enter the first Makita tool in the shop. And it just lasted and lasted... for half the price that was a pretty good deal :)
They're not so bad when you have the pipe handle installed, which gives you a lot of leverage over the body of the drill.
That being said, even the cordless ones have an absurd amount of power. At my work we use them to send a 3-flute, 1 1/4" auger bit about 5 feet straight through Douglas Fir (drilling concealed electrical wiring chutes in columns). I've seen them roll a 10' 8x8 (~150 lbs) across the sawhorses when someone forgot to clamp it before drilling.
I played withsome else's hole hawg and I realized it has too much torque for me to work with safely. I'm not physically large or strong and that tool needs a physique to match it if you don't want to end up in the infirmary. I have a somewhat smaller model that does the job as well but that takes a bit longer and doesn't immediately break my arm when it jams.
Indeed. DeWalt used to be great stuff and now it's just overpriced junk. The one thing they still have going for them is their batteries, those are excellent quality. But that's not a good enough reason to buy a tool.
Case in point: I still have a DeWalt drill from 2009's that is still on its original set of batteries. But a hammerdrill I bought for a renovation in 2015 died after moderate use just outside of the warranty and after taking it apart I realized this wasn't an accident but just crappy manufacturing. The mechanism was so delicate it should have never been greenlit and the materials used were sub-standard.
I tried thier ~$100 hammer drill. Failed immediately. Returned and rented $600 version. I learned to stop buying commodity price-competitive tools from Home Depot. But immediate failure of a hammer drill? The Menards MasterForce lasted longer ($50 POS, also returned).
I think the only ones that reach the end of warranty are the ones that are lightly used. Any contractor would go through a dozen of them before the warranty expired, especially if they do a lot of demo work.
Old Craftsman never actually manufactured anything. They just subcontracted out to other American tool manufacturers that built products with their branding. Those manufacturers are mostly gone now due to 30+ years of bad trade policy so New Craftsman can't tap into an existing skill base.
Those companies are still around but they are making industrial grade tools sets for commercial and government customers that are less price sensitive. Craftsman even continued their Made in the USA Tool line for a time under the “Craftsman Industrial” brand. You can still get Made in the USA tools you just have to be willing to pay 5-10x the price. Wright, S&K, MAC, Proto, Snap-on among others all still make tools in the USA
Note the person in that article is completely off on their math. They have a 19% line of credit and seem new to understanding how interest and principal work. (The article person thinks it’s 19%/month and is shocked that they are paying more than the principal in interest).
The loan described here sucks but seems similar to buying everything on a credit card and as a new tradesperson 19% is probably as good a loan as you’ll get without a credit history.
Most credit unions will give you better terms than 19% interest on a personal loan as a teenager if you have not seriously damaged your credit profile already.
These tool loans certainly aren't going out to people that have already rolled the bus on a Capital One $300 credit line credit card.
My credit union will for my kids because I’m a member. But if I’m a new person with no history, they’ll give me a lower interest rate, but only for like $500-1000, so probably not enough to get tools.
Certainly a good idea to shop around but it’s hard to get a $5000 loan with no credit and no collateral.
What I found odd is that I rarely see these tools for sale used. I expect they’d be valuable, but I guess they just get bought up before hitting eBay or Craigslist.
They may have outsourced even the business and management talent for manufacturing and become a mere brand that resells stuff built to spec by others. Shareholder value is maximized until everything is hollow and then it goes to zero.
That's my thought about it too. I'm not convinced labor being too expensive in the US was the reason manufacturing left in the first place. I think it might have just been a cost cutting move to manufacture in Asia which was done more for short term financial gain and designed by financial types. But the loss in talent and knowledge is very costly long term.
This article discusses why the lack of industrial supply chains locally really hurts - the availability of basic parts like custom screws without lead time is exemplary of the problem. The entire chain of production exists in Asia and not in America.
2. Lax environmental regulations make materials, disposal, and energy cheaper (which is really just dumping externalities on others).
3. China for one subsidizes its industries. Corporations can’t generally compete with governments, especially big ones with their own sovereign currency.
This I feel is closer to the reality - craftsman has "sold the brand" so hard that they can't charge anything like a premium, and their quality is now south of Harbor Freight.
It’s easy to shit on HF but some of their products are basically industry standard - like winches and floor jacks. It’s really odd to be honest because people will frequently mention buying something cheap off “Amazon or Ali express” and then scoff at HF. I’ve seen some HF products out perform SnapOn tools in YouTube reviews.
Not everything is “good” but it’ll get the job done.
Daytona floor jacks, good stuff. Icon tools pretty much one step below Mac/Snap on. Cable Porter, Warrior, etc. brand well its cheap and disposable. Pittsburg - well you're buying brass brushes so you use em once and throw em in the fuckit bucket. The names they give stuff do a good job indicating what the quality is.
Where would you go to buy air compressor and accessories at retail but HF? Nobody caries them. I bought excellent standing air compressor at black Friday sale couple years ago!
I love shopping at HF but I've had to learn through experience which of their products are decent and which are utter dogshit. And sometimes I still buy the dogshit if I know I only need the item once and plan to toss it.
Every now and then a crappy tool is exactly what’s needed. Ever had a hole in a countertop but a misaligned or otherwise inadequate hole in the plywood under it? (Or just wanted to drill a new hole through both?). Get a cheap, crappy Forstner bit the same size as your hole, stick it in the countertop hole, and drill through the plywood base. Cuts perfectly and takes very little time. Also destroys the bit very quickly. I don’t think there’s any benefit to using a nice Forstner bit for this. (A cheap hole saw could also work, but some fiddling with the drill bit portion may be needed.)
Obviously one should use a high quality diamond bit for cutting the countertop in the first place, with proper dust control.
buy cheap for the first one and if you ever have to replace it you know you will use it enough to pay for a quality replacement. that way you spend money on tools that need it.
I stopped buying harbor freight tools and went all in on Milwaukee. The productivity boost dwarfed the extra cash I paid...which now seems trivial in comparison to my capabilities with the tools.
> For my purposes harbor freight is where sears used to be
That's very contrary to my experience. I have a lot of tools. Most of my hand tools are Craftsman from Sears back when they were around. Nearly all of them are very adequate quality for a non-professional (i.e. used only on weekends, not full time). Sears hasn't been around for a while but I still have all the tools, all work great.
I went through a phase of trying to save money and bought a lot of junk from HF. Nearly all of it was an exercise in frustration and I've thrown it all away in anger. Soft metal, bad tolerances, pure junk. The only HF tool I have left is a cement mixer. It's not great (the belt keeps popping off) but for my limited cement needs it's been tolerable.
Honestly even their mid grade and above power tools are decent. I have an earthquake xt electric impact that makes short work of suspension and lug nuts.
The main downsides of their power tools is the refusal to make them share batteries and that the decent ones get into the Milwaukee/Dewalt tool price areas.
All "brands" do this now. Rather than selling one thing, they sell a variety in a "Good, Better, Best" tiered system so that a customer is never priced out of buying from them.
TTI does this too: Ryobi (Good), Ridgid (Better), Milwaukee (Best).
The average HF tool is probably expected to survive a single project. If you've ever taken apart any of their power tools it's honestly really sad. Some of the components are average for higher end tools but where they cut corners making them horrible will leave you scratching your head... Literally 10 dollars more could make a tool sold by a competitor for 100 that is sold by them for 20 unnoticeable to most hobbyists... Still not good nor reliable but passing for lay people.
> I think this says more about how badly Craftsman has shat the bed and less about manufacturing in America.
Sorry to burst your bubble. Manufacturing pliers and screwdrivers is a joke when compared to, as an example, manufacturing a cordless drill, battery packs, charger and accessories.
Not unless you are willing to play $500 for it, or much more.
Let's put it this way: If you take the time to create a detailed list of every component, material and process required to manufacture and deliver that product, you will quickly discover that NONE OF IT is made in the US.
In business terms, the supply chain for the manufacturing of such products is long and very expensive, because it isn't local.
Guess where you'd have to buy all the components from? China.
A corollary is that you cannot make this product for less (or even the same) than what it costs to make it in China. Impossible, even if the factories existed.
While people love to talk about "Buy American" there's a huge gaping hole between those who virtue-signal with bumper-stickers and flags and the much smaller group who actually practice --to the extent possible-- what they preach.
BTW, I have attended trade shows where Chinese OEM manufacturers showcase products they make, including tools. To put it in simple terms, anyone can sign a deal with any of these manufacturers and have a line of quality hand and power tools with their own brand and logo. You go to these conferences and can actually talk to and buy from the very companies who are making tools for the top brands in the US and Europe.
But a reminder that this didn't happen by accident. Capital went in search of cheap labor, to increase profits. The cheap(er) labor wasn't in the USA.
We let capital do this. We loosened capital flow rules, we loosened profit repatriation rules, we reduced or eliminated tariffs.
That's not to say that Chinese/Asian companies would never have gotten good at doing this on their own. But the situation we are actually is not really a result of their excellence and/or costs - it's because we elected political representatives who allowed the capital class to fuck us over, and so they did.
I'm much more socialist than the average HN'er, but let's not mistake - they pursued increased profits AND massively reduced prices.
Now we can say the price reduction wasn't worth it and the bang for buck has actually gotten worse as we've made more things more accessible. That the cost of everything being cheaper is that we have to buy more of it, creating more waste, contributing more to climate change, etc.
But ultimately globalization and the move to manufacturing in China HAS contributed to a huge amount of prosperity world wide as geographies that would've never been able to afford certain devices, tools, or even just entertainment before, have been able to.
Using the economists' definition of "durable goods" I would say that for the most part, quality has improved. Cars last 2-3x longer these days. Computers have been "fast enough" for a while and can last 10+ years. Perhaps professional tools have taken a nosedive but my low-end Ryobi tools last essentially forever with light household weekend usage.
Not a "durable good", but cheap clothing also feels way more reliable. Cheap synthetic or cotton/synthetic blends are now comfortable and breathable (which is a relatively new development) and last pretty much forever.
Some things have gotten anecdotally worse. Everybody says that large household appliances like refrigerators, washers, and dryers have really taken a nosedive in quality and/or repairability. It certainly feels true but, I don't know what the actual numbers might say.
But I don't know, man. Affordable crap from 2023 actually feels better than the affordable crap I remember from 1983 or 1993. It certainly doesn't feel worse.
These sorts of change tend to have significant but very diffuse benefits (everybody pays X% less for $thing) but very concentrated costs (areas dependent on $industry being gutted).
I tend towards the idea that the benefits are often worth having, but that the costs shouldn't be externalised onto the workers in question, and therefore regard corporation tax being used to fund redistribution/welfare programs to be justifiable on a market basis as a pigouvian tax as well as justifiable from basic morality.
Yep, the trick of neoliberalism was they reduced worker shares of wages, but they tried to cover that up by reducing the price of commodities (but not fundamentals like land, education, healthcare etc).
In North America, and maybe Europe, the share of worker wages has decreased to the benefit of the elite, but World-wide prosperity has increased DRAMATICALLY in the decades of "globalism" and "neoliberalism"
BILLIONS of people escaped poverty worldwide in exchange for the millions that entered it in the US.
Unfortunately it's not clear what the next step for those billions is. It's certainly not the path that the US and Europe went through for their post-industrial and post-war boom. But what is it instead? It's uncertain and unwritten.
At this point the existential threat to the majority of humanity isn't a lack of clean drinking water, vaccinations, and upward mobility opportunity. It's climate, heat waves, flood, and all the effects that affect everyone across class divides (except the 0.01% in their mountain bunkers)
Well, it's not western-centric to say that they (corporations/capitalists) reduced the workers' share of the revenue or profits. The workers for the corporations that moved production out of the USA and the EU pay their workers a smaller fraction of their revenue than they used to.
Yes, we've done a lot to reduce poverty in many parts of the world. There is a (relatively) furious argument going on, however, about the role of capitalist corporations in that process.
Maybe if stuff was still quality and we didn't have to buy everything multiple times as they break and malfunction, we could afford purchasing more expensive tools and items. And it's not like things are all that cheap anymore.
And on the flip side "We don't need those dirty manufacturing jobs, we will have a service industry" , "You didn't build that" and "Never coming back".
Throw in a dash of "Learn to code" too.
Maybe one day we can sit down and talk about how shitty it is but not until we stop playing Team Red vs Team Blue
Apologies if I'm interpreting/extrapolating incorrectly, but:
We let capital do this [...]
we elected political representatives who
allowed the capital class to fuck us over
Are you framing this as some kind of localized "we did capitalism wrong" mistake as opposed to like... an elemental, fundamental, inexorable aspect of free-marketish capitalism?
Short-term, "fuck the future" profit making is what capitalism encourages. Executives are judged quarterly and yearly, not rewarded for long-term thinking.
Same with our system of government. Relatively short terms for elected officials and the "endless campaign" have some benefits but essentially rule out any sort of coherent future-focused long-term thinking.
This is what our system was designed to do. Any other kind of behavior is anomalous.
Again, I apologize if I'm interpreting you unfairly. I'm ranting at the system, really.
I don't like capitalism much at all, but yeah, I don't think that this particular aspect of it was inevitable.
Judging based on quarterly results is a peculiarly American version of capitalism, and one that has a lot to do with publicly traded companies rather than private ones (which are still capitalist entities in a capitalist system, but subject to quite different incentives and pressures).
I don't think it's accurate to say our "system was designed" to do this sort of thing, if only because 50-90 years, it didn't do this sort of thing. It has mutated and/or the wiggle room within it has been discovered.
Now, capitalism can still be totally wrong or even almost entirely wrong, quite independently of whether "we allowed free capital flow, profit repatriation, no labor movement, etc." is also a terrible long term plan given capitalism.
one that has a lot to do with publicly traded
companies rather than private ones
Are there a lot of private companies doing big things (ie, $90M wrench factories?) out of their own war chests?
I can think of a few examples but my perception is that this is rare enough to essentially disregard... but, I could well be wrong.
Even if a private company does such a thing, it would almost always be via some kind of financing, right? Which creates its own sort of short-term pressure even if it's not as psychotically ADHD as the pressure exerted by Wall Street.
I don't think it's accurate to say our "system was designed"
to do this sort of thing,
I mean, of course it wasn't intentionally designed for this outcome.
But it was designed for rapid and almost entirely unfettered economic growth. Given that, what other outcome was possible?
if only because 50-90 years [ago] it didn't do this sort of thing.
It wasn't possible 50-90 years ago. There were world wars, the seas were not safe, communication was glacially slow or impossible, etc. Also the U.S. was not yet so rich that it couldn't afford to pay its own people to make its own stuff.
> Are there a lot of private companies doing big things (ie, $90M wrench factories?) out of their own war chests?
Ask the Germans :) Anyway, you issue bonds, instead of stocks. You control the term, the "market" tells you the cost. And its a fixed cost. Or you take out a loan, again with fixed interest. You control the parameters as much as anyone else. Or you issue restricted shares, to convince capital owners willing to make a longer term bet to play with you. They have to be in it for the long haul, since they can't sell the shares based on some 1st, 2nd or 3rd order belief about the company value.
> But it was designed for rapid and almost entirely unfettered economic growth
I don't think it was "designed" at all. It evolves subject to various pressures and interests. And since Reagan or slightly before, most of the pressures from citizens (as opposed to customers) have been lifted/ameliorated. Same with pressures from employees. True, we did somewhat increase the pressure from environmental concerns. But at some point, people noticed that extracting value, instead of creating value, was a pathway to riches, and that's where a lot of the big bucks are made these days.
- Are typing on computers that would not exist without capitalism
- Using an an internet that would not exist without capitalism
- Using phones that would not exist without capitalism
- Wearing clothes that would not exist without capitalism
- Living in homes that would not exist without capitalism
- Using furniture that would not exist without capitalism
- Enjoying entertainment that would not exist without capitalism
- Buying food that would not exist without capitalism
- Benefiting from medicine that would not exist without capitalism
- Living lives that would not exist without capitalism
- etc.
It's always interesting that those who despise capitalism never pull-up anchor and move to where they might be able to enjoy something in the range between socialist utopia and flat-out communism. Weird how that NEVER happens and how the vast majority of people actually yearn to live in places where capitalism has managed to --yes, imperfectly so-- raise more people out of poverty than any other system in the history of humanity.
No? Well, then, be an example and get rid of all the things you benefit from that came as a result of dirty-filthy capitalism. Be a role model for others. There's a huge difference between talking about virtue and having it. It's easy to not like capitalism while using your laptop while sipping a latte at Starbucks.
You seem to believe that innovation, and perhaps even production, requires a system in which the investment of capital in a limited liability enterprise is disproportionately the beneficiary of profit compared to the investment of labor or IP (that's all the capitalism consists of).
The things you list above are the product of science, art, curiosity, imagination, ambition, empathy, and hope. All of which can exist (and flourish) without or without capitalism.
Perhaps you make the mistake of thinking that capitalism somehow means "free markets" or "entrepeneurial culture". It does not. Those ideas are orthogonal to it, and can exist with it or without it. They can exist with or without worked-owned co-operatives. They can exist with or without state owned enterprises. They can exist with or without publicly traded shared-based ownership.
Worth mentioning that one can also go to pharma manufacturing and trade shows in China and discuss bespoke bulk synthesis deals and leave with free sample bags of uncapsuled high grade perscription drugs with a "to US patient on US soil" value of tens of thousands of US dollars.
Blame SBD, Craftsman is just a brand name. But yes, I agree.
TTI(Milwaukee, Ryobi, Ridgid) is, IMO, the best at what they do. SBD basically relies on old brand names with a dash of patriotism to exist. Even Chervon(Flex, Skil, Ego) outclasses them these days where they compete.
I tried the new Craftsman V20 kits that came out, and every single tool was problematic. I felt like they were basically just ripping off nostalgic people with garbage old stock. Ryobi and Skil, on the other hand, make stellar tools at a lower cost.
https://toolguyd.com/milwaukee-usa-made-hand-tools-2023-upda...
https://toolguyd.com/milwaukee-usa-made-pliers-screwdrivers-... (prices)
I think this says more about how badly Craftsman has shat the bed and less about manufacturing in America.