ID cards to vote would disproportionately obstruct legitimate voting of older people and racial minorities.
You need to understand that adding barriers to vote in the US has a 100+ year history of nefarious things like preventing eligible black people from voting as their primary purpose, then a firm understanding of the motives of such modern discussions falls quickly into place. Silly people who complain about "wokeness", maybe many of them here on HN, will say I'm being paranoid or outdated in that description, but the history is dark, ugly, and very real.
That is not an argument. The same way wokes say “look at Europe” when it comes to healthcare, conservatives say “look at Europe” when it comes to id cards.
All through the EU, id cards are the norm. If we can do it, so can you. This whole “but think of the black people” is bs. What are you, some kind of racist? You don’t think black people can get ids?
Obviously there's no shortage of ugly history in Europe, but Europe doesn't have this particular historical context. I would expect Europeans to be naive about this. I've had this discussion before.
> You don’t think black people can get ids?
Statistically, they are less likely to do so.
Edit: For me, an eye opening tidbit was this admission by a Republican strategist that the late 20th century discourse was about shifting from overt language about racism to more covert, abstract, economic talking points that are still rooted in racism. This is a left wing source but has the actual audio recording of that admission. https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/exclusive-lee-atwa... -- the takeaway is that you can't take a surface level read on a proposal and trust that no direct mention of race implies that it is not racist.
I think what Atwater predicted in this clip somewhat came true. Enough time has passed that young people have unironically embraced the dog whistles as idealized abstractions about small government and economics, states rights or federalism, without realizing they used to be dog whistles and not genuinely held when popularized.
Holy shit mate, do you hear your self? This is literally 13/52 talk.
Black people can get ids, they should get ids, just like everyone does in every other civilised country. I honestly can’t understand how anyone can oppose such a simple and natural thing.
> Minority voters disproportionately lack ID. Nationally, up to 25% of African- American citizens of voting age lack government-issued photo ID, compared to only 8% of whites.
I did not make up the statistic.
I do not endorse it or wish it to continue, but numerically, that is what it is. This is probably the largest reason one side of the American political spectrum, the one who would benefit from lower racial minority turnout, supports tightening the laws.
In tight elections like we routinely have, that statistical disparity can be enough to alter electoral outcomes.
Bruv, that is literally what racists say about crime stats. Black people account for only 13% of the population yet commit 52% of the crime. And they say “I did not make up the statistic.
I do not endorse it or wish it to continue, but numerically, that is what it is.” and then go on to suggest segregation or some other ridiculous thing. Just like you are suggesting ridiculous things like opposing id cards. They work, everyone uses and yes you god damned racist, black people can get them, they’re not retarded ffs!
There's a huge difference between blaming black people for crime and wanting to prevent voter disenfranchisement that the status quo says disproportionately affects black people.
They can get ID cards.. but they are less likely to. There are all sorts of factors involved in that, which are lamentable but we won't be able to solve overnight. Taking away voting rights will probably not help us get there either.
I swear this is literally the meme with the soyjack at the end crying “no, not like this!”
There is literally no functional difference between using racial statistics to argue for segregation or against id cards. The only difference is, you like one policy and dislike the other.
I completely agree. You are denigrating black people by implying they’re retarded and can’t get something as simple as an id card, and I am protecting voting rights by supporting a measure that will aid in increasing trust in the elections.
ACLU is no longer an unbiased source and regularly peddles regime propaganda.
"Studies of the effects of voter ID laws on turnout in the United States have generally found that such laws have little, if any, effect on turnout." [0]
"A 2014 study from the University of Iowa found no evidence that strict voter ID laws reduce minority turnout.[127] A 2012 study found that, although the Georgia voter ID laws lowered overall turnout by 0.4%, there was no racial or ethnic component to the suppression effect." [0]
Sorry, I tried a few drafts and I'm not sure how to say this. I am blown away by your reference to "the regime". It destroys your credibility immediately. It marks you as a very paranoid person.
I don't agree with everything ACLU says or does either. I don't start accusing them of conspiracy theories. I feel like pockets of HN are much more pro right wing conspiracy theory vs. just one year ago.
Anyway, the Wikipedia article you link to also has my argument represented, too ... Maybe read more of it.
If someone says ACLU is "propaganda for the Biden regime" I would say that person is pretty conspiracy theorist adjacent and not expressing themselves like someone in touch with reality.
I am usually very agreeable toward arguments of the form "all of Europe does X, so it's ridiculous to assume the US can't too". This is one of the cases where that's not true. ID requirements have been used for centuries in the US to disenfranchise various groups of voters. That's fact. If you know of a specific way to enforce strong ID requirements while somehow changing culture and politics dramatically for a huge swath of people such that this disenfranchisement stops being a problem, by all means, please let us know. Otherwise, your idea will not work.
>>you know of a specific way to enforce strong ID requirements
Do you know of any state that even has or is proposing "strong ID requirements" in the first place, because most of the Voter ID Laws I have seen passed have very very weak ID Requirements, often not even requiring offical government ID, instead accepting all mannar of types if ID including school issued ID's, Libary ID;s (if they ahve a photo), some even accept employer made ID's
All states that have voter ID laws also include a provision to get Free State Issues ID's so there is no cost requirement.
> ID requirements have been used for centuries in the US to disenfranchise
Because something was bad in the past, implemented in a different way, with different terms, under a difference society does is not a justification for opposition today.
>>If you know of a specific way
Some of the reforms / requirements I would like to see for voting
1. Week Long Voting including at-least 1 Sat and 1 Sun separated by 5 days.
2. In Person only unless provided a medical or other reason they can vote in person
3. if we are to have "ballot harvesting" Ballot collection only by certified, sworn and bonded person. A program akin to something notary public, and the collector must sign or otherwise identify their collections on the outside of the secure envelope, collections will be recorded and made part of the public record showing how many ballots each collector collected, and for what voter
4. Work with private partners to provide more polling locations, I am unclear why every Walmart, is not a polling location as an example
5. Remove all political parties from the ballot. We vote for people, not parties.
You need to understand that adding barriers to vote in the US has a 100+ year history of nefarious things like preventing eligible black people from voting as their primary purpose, then a firm understanding of the motives of such modern discussions falls quickly into place. Silly people who complain about "wokeness", maybe many of them here on HN, will say I'm being paranoid or outdated in that description, but the history is dark, ugly, and very real.