> so if I approach competent agencies demanding a milestone-based contract for $7-15k, they'd just tell me to get lost
Yep, exactly that.
And, for a dev agency (I'm not as familiar with how design would want to structure this), you'd either need _very_ detailed and specific requirements before we consider quoting the project, or we're going to need an up-front discovery phase (that will run a few thousand dollars anyway) to produce those detailed requirements and specifications, before we can even give a quote.
Fixed bid projects do feel like they create much more of an adversarial relationship than a collaborative one for working on a project, and when we make fixed bids we _definitely_ price a lot of the risk into the bid (and we're up front about that).
If a contractor told me to "get lost" over a $15k contract for a three-page rework + redesign; I'd just respond "gladly".
That is a dead simple ask and something that could easily be handled by one front-end dev + one designer in 1-2 weeks of half-time work. That easily covers their salaries (in LA, at least) + 30-50% overhead. You would probably pad that out to a month for other jobs + unknowables; but I would be absolutely shocked if an agency quoted anyone any more time than that for such a basic and trivial task. For a first time contract, that's a pretty good deal to entice word of mouth referrals + potential future work.
This isn't work that needs discovery or intricate scoping. It's basic work that anyone with web development experience can scope out and that a shop focused on that definitely has extensive experience on. Better than that, if you review his original scope guidelines, he makes it clear he specifically doesn't want any more work done than those three pages. All of the complicated work (logo redo + rebranding) he was talked into by the agency, along with random things like additional color palettes, extended page attributes, etc.
Well, I was talking about dev work rather than design work.
A 3 page build for a marketing website is probably very well scoped for the dev work (if the designs are done).
If the designs _aren’t_ done, though, and the fixed bid includes the client signing off on the visual look and feel, then… that’s not a tightly scoped requirement.
Could we do the dev in that budget? Almost certainly, I cannot imagine it taking longer than that for a handful of marketing pages.
Will I sign a fixed bid contract, if I don’t have a design and requires the client to sign off on the final look and feel in order to be complete? No, that would be insane.
> and the fixed bid includes the client signing off on the visual look and feel
He came to them specifically because he liked other work they had done and wanted something similar. Are there still vagaries between integration and specific brand tweaks? Sure. But don't pretend this is a major corporate rebrand or anything. The only discovery is his tastes.
If it's that big of a worry: make visual sign-off milestone one. Add a 10-15% upfront deposit and you both will know in a week or so whether it's right to move on with minimal loss to both parties.
Either way, he'd be much better off than 6mos+ of work at 450% of his original budget.
> He came to them specifically because he liked other work they had done and wanted something similar.
Right, but, for the third time, I was providing my input for a dev agency (not design agency) perspective. I was generally providing another perspective of input on fixed bid contracts.
I’m sure you can make fixed bid projects work with design agencies, and I agree that it will ensure the risk remains with the agency (but also that it’s possible that you end up spending more than with a carefully managed T&M project.
But, again, I’m not an expert at working with design agencies, and I’m not making any recommendations about the best way to work with a design agency.
Yep, exactly that.
And, for a dev agency (I'm not as familiar with how design would want to structure this), you'd either need _very_ detailed and specific requirements before we consider quoting the project, or we're going to need an up-front discovery phase (that will run a few thousand dollars anyway) to produce those detailed requirements and specifications, before we can even give a quote.
Fixed bid projects do feel like they create much more of an adversarial relationship than a collaborative one for working on a project, and when we make fixed bids we _definitely_ price a lot of the risk into the bid (and we're up front about that).