But I am also the type of developer that would do well at this (experienced and older). Young folks, right out of school, or with just a couple of years of experience, would not do as well.
I’m pretty convinced that one of the goals of LeetCode tests is as a “young-pass filter.” It controls for people close to college age, where those types of problems are common, as well as people that are willing to work very hard, learning exercises that appear pointless.
Not sure that many companies, these days, are actually interested in older, more experienced, developers.
> Not sure that many companies, these days, are actually interested in older, more experienced, developers.
I’m beginning to appreciate the value of cohorts as I age. I work in a ver successful triad, ages 51, 58, 61. We recently tried to integrate a young-30s in our group. It did not go well. They recently moved from our team and are working elsewhere with a group of people closer to same skill, aptitudes, and age. Both they and we are much happier this way. It’s a small sample set obviously. I value a diverse world where we tolerate and learn from each other. But years of working experience have made me wonder if we shouldn’t just let age/skill cohorts naturally work together.
Throwing in my own anecdotal example and tiny sample size: many years ago I was part of a trio of 20s, 40s, and 60s front-end devs – all rare and elusive Bay Area natives who grew up in very different part of SV history with very different backgrounds.
On first glance, we really should not have worked well together. But the group clicked because it shared a value system (be it for writing clean code, good documentation, user experience, collaboration, etc.).
And it was two introverts and one extrovert, to boot!
The company I work for is desperately hurting for older, more experienced developers. We use very mature tech (to put it charitably) - Java/Spring, Python/Django, C++ for OS interfacing parts - and we are having trouble filling roles for junior and senior software engineers.
Part of that is the company is insisting on going hybrid after the pandemic, so they filter out full remote candidates for long term positions.
To connect to the article, we have three questions in our interview that lasts an hour and a half - in one of which the candidate is given a small program with a bug and we see how they troubleshoot it - the idea is not to fix it, it's to see how they think.
I get your point but its not like recent grads have it super easy getting their first job; you have decades of experience interviewing (part of which is Leetcode which you have probably done many times); for them it's probably the first time doing this. On top of it all many places don't want juniors at all.
Actually, I never took coding tests, until a few years ago, when I was looking for work, at age 55.
I quickly learned, that if I saw a binary tree test, I might as well give up. Even if I did OK, the company was not going to give me a chance.
What I do have, is a ginormous portfolio, with dozens of repos full of ultra-high-Quality code, for shipping products, and over a decade of checkin history, along with hundreds of pages of documentation, and dozens of blog articles and postings; often directly discussing my design methods and development practice.
It has been my experience that this was dismissed, even when I curated and sent examples, directly relevant to the job.
Hey I hear you, I'm not gonna gaslight your experience, let met just say this:
1) Getting a job that pays well isn't that easy in most fields
2) Getting a job as a software dev in FAANG or somewhere else desirable to many devs is plain difficult; you are competing against dozens and sometimes hundreds of candidates, some of whom are pretty good. There is no real "dev shortage" for these companies, if anything there's a huge inflation of devs who are qualified and want to work for them.
3) The tech interview process sucks and almost everyone acknowledges this and hates it; just 2 days ago I was asked a riddle about how to measure 45 minutes when burning ropes that take 60 minutes to burn. That was freaking half the interview, the other half was a difficult array question. Looking at the solution now there's no way I could come up with it even on a good day. And the company was a run of the mill company most people haven't even heard of, not exactly a FAANG. I was interviewing for a team with a pretty esoteric tech stack which I am super qualified for - but alas I get stressed when confronted with boys scouts riddles in a high pressure situation - so I must not be worthy of the job.
What I'm saying is - I think we all suffer in this together, it might be a bit better for recent grads but not by much. In the next downturn you will have dozens of people who know you well and will recommend you and help you get a job - a recent grad has nothing and will be the first to be let go since most of them can't really produce much yet. I'd take being 50 something with 2 decade worth of experience and connections than being a recent grad now.
It's an industry, where people make pretty sick money, for little experience. In fact, younger folks often make better salaries than older folks.
I worked for over 35 years, and never made as much as many kids right out of school, make, at FAANG (or is it now "MAANG"?) companies.
I was able to save and invest enough money, though, so that, when I was given the cold shoulder, at 55, I was able to take my toys and go home. That is a very, very rare privilege, and I am grateful. I feel as if I dodged a bullet. Many of the companies I looked at, made it clear, that, even if they did me the huge favor of offering me a job at a vastly substandard salary, they would treat me like garbage.
When the bubble bursts (and that may be coming. The horrid quality of so much of today's software is a real chicken coming home to roost), we will have huge armies of terrible programmers, desperate for work, and making it difficult to filter out the good ones.
Have you tried reaching out to people on your network who worked with you in the past? I think this together with your experience is a very strong asset. Reach out, tell them you want work, you might be pleasantly surprised that your age isn't much of an obstacle.
Nah... I stopped bothering. The whole industry has changed, and the older folks have become just as bad as the younger ones, because they swim in the same river, and have to compete with them. One of the most disturbing interviews I had, was with an engineering lead who was in his sixties, and was extremely hostile. He would have been my boss, if I had pursued it further.
No thanks.
It really was just easier for me to throw in the towel. Like I said, I'm quite fortunate to be in the position that I'm in.
But it isn't work, if you enjoy what you do, and that's where I'm at. I never want to be in a position again, where my work is ignored and/or disrespected. I love to work, and take great pride in the Craft. That is treated as a "quaint anachronism," these days, so I guess I'm on my own.
But I am also the type of developer that would do well at this (experienced and older). Young folks, right out of school, or with just a couple of years of experience, would not do as well.
I’m pretty convinced that one of the goals of LeetCode tests is as a “young-pass filter.” It controls for people close to college age, where those types of problems are common, as well as people that are willing to work very hard, learning exercises that appear pointless.
Not sure that many companies, these days, are actually interested in older, more experienced, developers.