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I think you’re misunderstanding capabilities: they can apply also at the class/method/module level. If you’re language doesn’t have “ambient authority”, nothing can create a network connection unless it’s explicitly granted permission to do so and, typically, this permission is granted by passing some sort of non-forgeable token around.


Java used to have exactly this with security manager https://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/essential/environmen...

Its been removed from the language because "it wasnt needed or used".


This is more like ACLs, which are a completely different paradigm from capability-based security. An ACL system is based around specifying permissions for actions and such, whereas capability systems are based around reifying authority in an unforgeable way and passing the resulting tokens around.


I don't see the difference between passing tokens around and inheriting a security manager that can only have permissions and capabilities revoked?


The former is explicit, and an IDE can help with highlighting unused ones. The latter is difficult to audit because the code that uses relevant APIs is disconnected from the privilege-enforcing mechanism. It's either some sort of abstract policy framework or explicit privilege dropping


I don't remotely see how an ide could help highlight which functions are insecure to call reflectively, other than linting, and that applies to both and only helps so much.


You should probably spend ten minutes reading an introduction to capabilities then so you can understand the basic concepts before commenting. I don't know what to recommend nowadays, but mlinksva posted a link to one.


I wasnt the one saying security manager was the same as an acl.

Nothing you posted explains why a reference to the security manager class isn't a token.

It seems to me more that you dont understand either capabilities or the old security manager class.


> It seems to me more that you dont understand either capabilities or

Mark Miller cited me ("K. Sitaker") in Capability Myths Demolished and Paradigm Regained:

https://www-users.cselabs.umn.edu/classes/Fall-2019/csci5271...

https://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/2003/HPL-2003-222.pdf?jum...

Tyler Close cited me in ACLs Don't:

https://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/2009/HPL-2009-20.pdf?q=do....

It sounds like you disagree with their judgment on this point.


acls are only a tiny part of security manager did. It was a full fledged class based security system.

Yes, I do disagree that something like pfsense "is only an acl"

Or that capabilities can function without lists.

You dont?


I'm not going to argue with you. You haven't earned it. Go and study.


You didnt argue. You just posted a load of completely irrelevant links that have absolutely nothing to do with the java security manager class or why it was depreciated in Java 17.

I believe there is a name for that - strawman.

the jep is here https://openjdk.java.net/jeps/411

Not checked but Im fairly certain none of your links are referenced there.




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