My son is interested in mechanical keyboards. Has built maybe six. So consequently I get involved. I’m not very impressed. The prices are extremely rich on everything. There is an extreme social media marketing bs around everything. But the worst part for me is the PCB boards are mostly all coming from kbd fans (apparently one of the better makers) and their technical support is awful. Two different boards have developed problems which I’ve gone to great lengths to debug. The assistance from kbd is awful. Basically their answer was “here is a 12$ coupon, just buy a new $39 pcb”.
And before fan boys attack me, both keyboards worked for a while and then developed problems. In the dz60 case somehow the cascading comm channel of the RGB stopped working. In the kbd67, far right column quit responding even though I trace the continuity to the atmel microprocessor.
Cannot find a schematic for the kbd67 so I’m reduced to buying another so I can compare the circuits....
Another dislike is that full size keyboards are scorned and generally unavailable. Hey check it out, I’m a full sized adult doing full size job with my pc, so I actually do use the number pad, etc.
Overall bad value for money and too much social posing.
I was into the scene a little while ago and built a bunch of keyboards, ordered some of the rarer customs from massdrop and from manufacturers like rama. Honestly, it's hype culture. The scene seems to attract a very similar crowd to a lot of other hobbies that have limited batches or 'runs' of a product. Actually I found a lot of crossover with watch and shoe collectors and modified car enthusiasts.
Some of the prices on caps and cases were insane. Then what happens is you get this status on particular makers or products that only had very limited runs and were sold at very high prices and the prices just keep going up.
In the end I settled on a nice mass produced 60% board that suited me, got a relatively cheap case and some caps to taste, sold the other boards and left it at that.
It was fun for a while, but it's a deep rabbit hole and quite expensive. I also noticed that for many (including myself to some degree) it turns into a 'collect and show off' endeavour, where your status in the community is basically tied to how much money you've spent. And that just wasn't the game I wanted to play any more.
> Another dislike is that full size keyboards are scorned and generally unavailable. Hey check it out, I’m a full sized adult doing full size job with my pc, so I actually do use the number pad, etc.
I don't understand this trend for less and less keys. I get that
it can be nice to have more room on the desktop but why would
you give up the arrow- and F-keys. They are so useful and the
space benefit without them is marginal.
Because with layers (holding down a key to change what other keys are doing) you can have the arrows, numbers or F-keys right under your fingers. So you don't have to move your hands so much to use them, and some people really like that idea.
I'm very much against fewer keys (I have lots of space!) but really like how the F keys are now layer+numkey. I don't have to stretch my fingers and lose no functionality otherwise.
That's why there's a trend toward ortholinear keyboards at the small(est) end of things. It helps that they're also fully programmable.
Want a numpad? Switch to a different layout on the fly and have a numpad where you want it. Arrow keys? F-Keys? Why not have those on home row with another layout!
It can get gimmicky, but the impetus for it is that less overall finger/wrist movement == more ergonomic but I'm not fully convinced. Instead, I just prefer everything I can get on home row.
Same here, I have nothing against more keys, I just have no use for them now. I wouldn't want to be without a num row, but now that my tilde key switches the right side of my keyboard's home row to numeric, I don't even have to move my hand away to type numbers.
I gave them up because I really, really like the look of a keyboard that is 100% keys with no gaps. I realise that's not a brilliant reason but that's why.
I don't want a numpad because getting my mouse closer to the center of my desk really helps with RSI for me. There weren't many options left at that point, especially since I wanted a UK layout and no unstandard key sizes (limits your options with keycaps).
But yeah, if I could get something that looked as nice and had F+arrow keys I'd probably go for it.
Fwiw I got used to the chords you need to access those pretty fast.
> I don't want a numpad because getting my mouse closer to the center of my desk really helps with RSI for me
Same. I bought a full-sized keyboard with numpad, but I felt it put the mouse too far off to the right. I much prefer the mouse to rest couple of inches from the enter key.
You can buy a programmable macropad / keypad (there's a huge range in price). With the most programmable ones (look for "QMK"), you can assign keys to any arbitrary combination or sequence as you choose, and if required make layers, e.g. NumPad layer → IntelliJ shortcut layer → Some game shortcuts.
> I don't want a numpad because getting my mouse closer to the center of my desk really helps with RSI for me.
Same here. I went with a smaller keyboard for ergonomics. Also, I never use F-keys and rarely use the arrow keys, and there are some "60%" layouts (The [Mass]Drop ALT) that still have the arrow keys. I don't care for the RGB and other blingy crap on these, since I really don't look at the keyboard much anyway.
Sure, that's a nice perk. It's one I'm personally willing to give up for aesthetics and space on the desk. I'm aware it's not the most practical choice :)
Funnily most laptop keyboards get away with no spaces between any keys even when there might be space. Granted, there are more considerations there, but I think convention has a little to do with it too.
It’s my opinion that moving your hands is ultimately good, especially when compared against contorting your hands to hit multiple modifier keys. Much like transitioning between sitting and standing regularly is good, because it means you’re not constantly static.
Interestingly enough, that's one thing that actually works well for left handed people, the numeric keypad isn't in the way using full sized keyboards.
But you should've seen the incredulous look I got when I gave a USB number pad for Christmas to a left handed accountant.
macOS here — I never use the F-keys. I also always disable capslock because I never use that either. Having said that, I do make a lot of use of modifier+key for symbols such as quote marks, apostrophes, and dashes, so I'd love a keyboard where those characters are first class keys. Also, typing '#' is a pain on many (?) mac keyboards.
I think that's unique to the mac UK layout? # is usually on shift-3, so to accommodate £ on the same, they moved # to alt-3. Yuck.
For me - There's another layout named "ABC - Extended", which reverses the two - so £ is on alt-3, but # is back where it belongs. It has a very different compose set behind the alt modifier though, so might be jarring if you frequently use them.
Yup, that must be what it is — frustrating because I need a £ symbol probably less than 1 percent as often as I need a #. I'm more-or-less used to it but every now and then I'll get the wrong modifier and do something like switch to tab #3 instead...
It's just personal preference. I can't use a smaller keyboard than 65% (no function key row, no numpad, but with an arrow and pgdn/pgup cluster), but I have friends who swear by 40% keyboards. Whatever works for you.
It depends on your job role - doing stuff in a terminal all day is probably OK with a 40%, if you type numbers and IP addresses all day you want a numpad, if you live in excel you probably want function keys.
For the arrow keys, if you've bind them to something like hjkl it means you don't have to move your hand to use them. Especially with a split spacebar as your fn key.
I think it's disingenuous to call tools that other people value "fashion items". It may not be for you, but using layers to move keys closer to home row helps a lot of us with RSI problems. "Those of us with RSI problems" may include you some day; be careful.
That's fair, I've not been exposed to people with RSIs that use these smaller keyboards. Most people I know with RSIs opt for the Microsoft ergonomic keyboards (The new ones are actually kind of cool looking!)
I'm glad it's working out for you, and I'll certainly sneer a little bit less at them in the future, but just using my anecdotal experience, a lot of RSIs make chording keys difficult, and most people who use small form factor keyboards say they do so because it makes their desk less cluttered. Maybe it's not just a fashion item... But for a certain segment, it certainly is.
> Another dislike is that full size keyboards are scorned and generally unavailable. Hey check it out, I’m a full sized adult doing full size job with my pc, so I actually do use the number pad, etc.
I got a short keyboard (no number pad) for the ergonomics. I've been battling ergonomics pains (mainly shoulder). After reading many articles one mentioned getting a shorter keyboard so you don't have to move your hand as far to transition from keyboard to mouse. I gave it a try and it does help. I do miss the number pad though!
One; the "audiophile" mindset has afflicted mechanical keyboards -- most people are buying keyboards for the purpose of showing off their keyboards, rather than to enhance their ability to interact with computers. Actual functionality is kind of an afterthought, and style is very important to people.
Two; it's easy enough to make your own keyboard out of commodity parts that there might not be any market for unusual designs. What is available in bulk is what is profitable to manufacture in bulk, and that's what you see advertised in your "social media marketing bs". But, it's easy to make your own and opt-out of all of that.
I wanted a split keyboard with the two halves a certain distance apart, thumb keys that were the exact size of my thumbs, and a numberpad in the middle. Shockingly, no such thing has ever been manufactured in bulk! So I drew one in CAD, printed it out, popped in the keyswitches, hand-wired the rows and columns, connected it to a microcontroller, downloaded commodity firmware to the microcontroller, and I had the exact keyboard I had always wanted. (Turns out: I hated it! But... you don't know until you try.)
I guess what I'm saying is that you should skip the BS and make your own.
>Another dislike is that full size keyboards are scorned and generally unavailable. Hey check it out, I’m a full sized adult doing full size job with my pc, so I actually do use the number pad, etc.
in fairness, you can buy separate numpads with the added bonus of being able to put it where you want. That being said, yes. the crazy 60%, etc keyboards are a bit much.
I bought an ergonomic, mechanical keyboard last year, since my decade-old Logitech keyboard broke and there were very few commercial replacements like it. I even bought a set of comparatively cheap keycaps -- having used Dvorak for 15 years, it's nice to finally have a keyboard with correctly labelled keys.
But I find it very strange that some of the most popular mechanical keyboards are much less ergonomic than a cheap Dell keyboard -- especially the Planck Keyboard, and anything with a fixed 1970s "wedge" shape.
In an effort to show there are some reasonable options, I made (strongly deriving from an earlier website on GitHub) and continue to maintain a gallery of ergonomic mechanical keyboards: https://aposymbiont.github.io/split-keyboards/
Don't get me wrong, custom keyboards are great and it's good to see innovation, but some builds aren't that reasonable in terms of investment for an input device.
You really can't talk about 'tracktyl's and not mention qqurn! Not only does he have a really nice tracktyl design(1), but his repo's includ DM's with button, trackball, and trackstick/electric eraser thumb clusters. Really a great place to start if you want to make a Dactyl Manuform (DM) based keyboard.
Author here - thanks for the feedback. if I'd seen this board then I definitely would have included it in the article! Would you happen to have the contact info for the creator?
The full title of the article is “The 17 coolest custom mechanical keyboards we’ve ever seen”, not “The 17 most ergonomic mechanical keyboards we’ve ever seen”.
Pretty disingenuous to judge an article’s merit over a subject it was never meant to be about.
Sadly these minimal layouts only really work with something resembling ANSI Layout. I would need ISO for German and then it quickly stops making any sense. Also steep learning curves and layering is less efficient for me than a standard keyboard. My job involves text, numbers, some coding. I need all the keys available. I love them but can't really use them. I ended up with a Realforce Topre full size - very nice tbh.
I like using the layering with my Ergodox keyboard because it helps keep special characters I frequently use (parens, braces, brackets, etc) right under my fingers in a relaxes position. It alleviated a lot of finger strain I was feeling reaching for the keys (and reaching for shift especially) so frequently.
Though I do have a standard layout with the number/symbols row available as well.
As usual, most of them have negative ergonomics compared to a cheap keyboard. Because the wrists will be more crooked due to the keyboard's height. In addition to the other half-dozen problems that keyboards seem to pass down as heirlooms.
Exactly this. I bought a mechanical keyboard and the ergonomics are so atrocious I had pain in wrists and shoulders after a single day of use, and had to go back to a cheap Dell keyboard that came with a refurbished PC I bought years ago.
I'm very much mechanical keyboard enthusiast-adjacent.
I've used a kinesis advantage for years (highly recommend; get your employer to pay for it), and have pretty much never dabbled in other keyboards
My wife has a mechanical keyboard (with arrows/nav, no numpad) but generally prefers the Microsoft ergo offering (non mechanical) for its... ergonomics
I recently bought a friend's group buy [1], and I'm excited! But while it looks great and will probably feel good, I imagine it will primarily be for playing games [2] or decoration. And at the price point of high end mechanical keyboards, it's not cheap decoration. Of course, it won't look or feel cheap either.
The subculture is cool, though. A lot of people here write it off as an expensive hobby, but successful keyboard designers can quit their day jobs. Group buys are the norm because these keyboards are being made professionally in factories where they need to know how many to make. You can't go back and make one more after the run. They are so limited in stock because the designers can't afford to buy more than a few extras (sometimes dozens of extras) to sell after the group buy is over.
Yes, all of that leads to the "hype culture" if you're on the outside, there's a real cred to getting in on a limited run. But like anything, it makes more sense the more you know about it. (Of course, you might still end up leaving the hobby feeling like it was a waste of money!)
This past year I designed the ErgoBlue (https://www.xudongz.com/blog/2020/ergoblue/), a split ErgoDox keyboard that is wireless and solar powered. I'm obviously biased but I think it's a pretty unique build.
The interest check ran a few weeks ago and the group buy will run in a few weeks (group buys are essentially preorders where a certain number of quantity is required in order to achieve some economies of scale so it's not prohibitively expensive).
I got a wireless split keyboard "Centromere v2" and have had lots of issues with the connection. Keys will get stuck, latency will cause keys to be pressed in the wrong order, sometimes one half of the keyboard will stop working... I'm designing my won Centromere-alike right now, but I'll make it wired (and I'll print test layouts to see what fits my fingers better).
Have you not had similar experiences with wireless keyboards? I love the layout but am so tired by the constant problems with wireless, especially when the keyboard always sits on the same spot on my desk.
I've been using my new keyboard for a few months now and haven't had any latency issues. Most of the newer custom wireless keyboards run ZMK (https://zmkfirmware.dev/) and latency issues are uncommon. If you are interested in making your design wireless, consider joining the Discord.
I've been thinking about that, I've heard from a friend that has had zero issues with ZMK too, but I just don't need wireless. However, I might make my design wireless-friendly, so down the line I can unplug the Arduino and drop in a ZMK-compatible controller.
The custom mechanical keyboard community has been slowly growing for years and at the high end figures probably weren't too impacted by WFH since the supply is as constrained as ever. The "good" stuff is run as group buys and typically sell out within minutes. Satisfaction75 had 1300 units available and sold out in just over 10 minutes, smaller runs like Iron 180 or Bauer 2 sold out in something like two minutes. Those examples are all from the fall.
And this is not a hobby for the impatient. Group buys take your money now, but often don't deliver for 6 - 12 months.
Some keyboards are unlimited (e.g., Grid 650), but that's typically not the norm.
Very true. One of the creators I interviewed - the Nemui - told me it took him about a year to create just the design. Figure in the prototyping, IC, and group buy stages, and then quality checks after the boards have been sent, then shipping them out, it can take 2-3 years from creation to completion (where the customer has it in their hands), and like you said 6-12+ months from ordering the board to having it as a customer.
But that's on the higher end, the "good" stuff. Lots of kits available now that can be assembled at home, or even pre-assembled.
Author here - I'm willing to bet online sales in general went up during the pandemic period. I can ask some of the guys I interviewed if they noticed any upticks in requests and can report back
so there has been an uptick in demand from the community. Covid has blown up the hobby in terms of size, as many more people have joined this year. and group buys are sold out in seconds (some to flip it for 300% the price, others who actually love/want the board)
As someone who uses a computer professionally and for fun, upwards of 12+ hrs a day for 20+ years, investing in good quality tools of your trade are worth it.
Mechanical Keyboards are nice obviously for the tactile difference and impact on typing speed and sensitivity, but for me the game changer was switching to a split keyboard for the ergonomics. I have always had shoulder pain, and tightness in my triceps. No matter how much I worked on ergonomics .. mouse position, height, etc. I have very broad shoulders/chest, so putting my hands on the keyboard always bowed my chest in and rotated both shoulders slightly forward.
I use the UltimateHackingKeyboard (UHK) now for over a year, and my shoulder and arm pain have all but disappeared. The UHK comes with a relatively short 3-4 inch cable to connect the two halves, and I found that was even to close together. I've since replace with a 12 inch cable and each half of the keyboard sits directly in front of the corresponding shoulder. This lets my arms, pecs,triceps, and back muscles all be in a relaxed position.
Some of these are cool, but I have a few objections to these being the "coolest".
These keyboards all appear to have Cherry MX (or clone) switches. So yes, they are custom, but they are somewhat uniform in the switches themselves.
60% keyboards are a gimmick. The addition of arrow keys and a nav cluster adds an inch to the physical footprint and doesn't affect ergonomics or portability enough to matter.
Unless you routinely type in Japanese, Japanese legends do not add anything but visual clutter.
I don't think any of these are office friendly. Too many bright colors and noisy switches.
This comes down to preference I suppose, but from the /r/mkb subreddit it seems that the demographics of mechanical keyboard community is mostly guys in their teens to mid-twenties and mostly gamers, not programmers and power users. I think it's cool that mechanical keyboards are coming back, but it's unfortunate that stock/custom options are so limited. Maybe this will improve as the community grows up.
This seems to be just a recycling list of a lot of the top posts on /r/mkb from the last few months. I'm honestly surprised it's on HN.
You'd be surprised how many people are programming on these. The current switches I'm using are about the same volume as rubber domes, and is the keyboard I plan to take back to the office.
I am kind of interested in a mechanical keyboard but also really don’t want to give up my wireless solar powered capability that my Logitech has. Plus the prices for these things are just outrageous.
Maybe I’m missing something but last time I checked there was no ergonomic keyboard cheaper than 300 USD. Is that really the case? Do they become (super) less expensive when DIY?
It depends on what kind of ergonomic keyboard you want I suppose. You could get an assembled 36-key GergoPlex for $160[0]. And I do think it's cheap to build a dactyl-manuform yourself if you have access to a 3D-printer.
The most expensive single part of the custom mechanical keyboards is the case. If you want a high quality aluminum case, those usually double or triple the price of the keyboard. Off-the-shelf options that use plastic cases are probably your best option to minimize costs. Kinesis makes a few models that are pretty nice. Ultimate Hacking Keyboard is just under $300 (w/out shipping). X-Bows is around $200.
DIY boards with sandwich case is the cheapest option, but they don't look or feel anywhere near as robust as boards with full case design. You also need to factor in cost of tools to assemble one, and switches and keycaps, so it actually ends up being pretty close to the examples above.
I'm quite fond of the kits sold by https://www.littlekeyboards.com/ They have a good selection of some of the more popular split ergonomic keyboard designs mostly from Japanese keyboard designers with different kits, incl. different case options. I believe they will also assemble the keyboards for you at extra cost.
With all the options (larger cable in between the halves, risers, etc.) it's closer to $200 than the $99 base price but still a tremendous value.
An added benefit over most other super ergonomic keyboards is that the design is close enough to standard QWERTY that it's pretty trivial to get going. I've a few friends who have really struggled with the more aggressively altered layouts of some of the other designs.
I DIYed an ErgoDash for about €150, mostly from keycapsss.com. That meant buying a PCB, case, parts kit, Arduinos etc from them, and key switches and cheap keycaps from China.
You can further reduce the cost by ordering the PCB yourself from China, and some components from electronics suppliers, or laser cutting a case yourself at a maker space (or doing without).
It's also possible to do without a PCB, and handwire the whole thing. This is common where there's little alternative, like on the Dactyl or Dactyl Manuform 3D keyboards.
Nice list and diverse list, at least in terms of looks. Would’ve liked to see the Keyboardio Atreus (https://keyboard.io/atreus) also included, what makes it stand out is a minimalistic and portable design.
And before fan boys attack me, both keyboards worked for a while and then developed problems. In the dz60 case somehow the cascading comm channel of the RGB stopped working. In the kbd67, far right column quit responding even though I trace the continuity to the atmel microprocessor.
Cannot find a schematic for the kbd67 so I’m reduced to buying another so I can compare the circuits....
Another dislike is that full size keyboards are scorned and generally unavailable. Hey check it out, I’m a full sized adult doing full size job with my pc, so I actually do use the number pad, etc.
Overall bad value for money and too much social posing.