I’m not sure I that “Indian” is a “race” for any common definition of the word. It’s a nationality, but my my relatively uninformed perspective it appears that there are many ethnic and cultural groups that comprise it.
More importantly, you seem to be attributing malice to the GP. They are noticing a cultural difference and asking for context. While their choice of phrasing may seem to some of us to be “problematic”, it looks to me that they are asking a reasonable and valid question.
I’ve noticed that these sorts of “feel good”/“just so” stories are very common in Asian cultures. I’ve seen many short movies from Thailand where the downtrodden underdog ends up doing a hugely positive thing and ultimately being appreciated for it. If memory serves, some of them are produced by the state itself.
I have no idea what role they serve in their culture, but it’s different enough from my own to be an interesting phenomenon.
I certainly don’t think asking about it is a bad thing.
> I’m not sure I that “Indian” is a “race” for any common definition of the word.
It can be in some contexts, for example English law.
Equality Act 2010 s.9:
> (1) Race includes— (a) colour; (b) nationality; (c) ethnic or national origins.
> (4) The fact that a racial group comprises two or more distinct racial groups does not prevent it from constituting a particular racial group.[1]
Crime and Disorder Act 1998 s.28(4):
> In this section "racial group" means a group of persons defined by reference to race, colour, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origins.[2]
I agree asking about a cultural difference is fine, and I also think there's a way to do it, and that the top-level comment was way wide of that mark: it doesn't read like someone that wants to learn about a culture to me, it reads like someone glad of an opportunity to have a go.
Perhaps you're just hyper sensitive. I'm really just curious why I see these stories posted by Indian people frequently, but far less frequently by, say, Chinese people. Maybe it's just because Indians can more easily be part of the Anglo-web that I'm a part of versus Chinese people.
This doesn't prove anything, but I'm married to an Indian person. My child is half Indian. I am not just "having a go". I'm just curious. You need to chill with the assumption that anything you read that is genuine curiosity is racism because of "phrasing".
It only matters if you believe the meanings of words matter. When a woman is attributed negative stereotypes due to her gender in the workplace that disrupts her career, is that "racism"?
I love the meanings of words. I had a rather long exchange with someone on here a few weeks ago about the difference between "theft" and "robbery".
In this case though, the meaning is kinda academic. If you don't get a job or an apartment because of unfair bias, would it make you feel better that it was due to negative stereotypes about your nationality or sex, rather than negative stereotypes about people with your skin color? They're all equally unfair and the outcome is equally negative for you.
Bigotry based on any immutable characteristic is equally bad. Ok someone used the wrong label for the specific type of bigotry, so what? Especially in this case, we don't have a good word for bias based on nationality or national origin ("xenophobia"? but what if they're a dual-citizen or citizen of your country? "ethnophobia"? you get my point) We know what they meant, so move on and talk about the bigotry instead of the dictionary. That's why saying "X isn't a race, so it's not 'racism'" is pointless in this context.
Okay. Let's talk about the bigotry. Is there anything even bigoted in the original post? Would it be racist if an Indian person asked "Why do Americans love guns so much?" to the point of requiring a response chastising the questioner?
Different cultures manifest themselves in different behaviors among the individuals of the given culture. If it didn't, the concept of culture wouldn't exist. So what exactly is bigoted if one asks why culture X seems to be prone to telling a certain type of story? Is it also racist to say a lot of magical realism comes out of Colombian culture, and wonder why that is the case?
The original post is flagged, so I can't read it. From the surrounding discussion I surmised that the original post made some sort of negative-sounding sweeping generalization about Indians, or at least phrased it in a bad way.
I'm not here to talk about the original post though. I'm specifically objecting to the "X isn't a race hur dur" meme because it derails discussion of the issue at hand without being constructive.
Neither of the things you mentioned about Americans or Colombians are negative or positive stereotypes - I see them as neutral. So those questions aren't bigoted by themselves, IMO. But there are ways to phrase those questions that would make you sound bigoted against Americans or Colombians. (No I don't care to try to give an example).
The original post asked (paraphrased) “why do Indians like this sort of feel good story so much?”
I bought up the pedantic point because in my mind it was further illustration that the poster who used the term “casual racism” was jumping to conclusions. Not only could the original post have been easily interpreted as in good faith, but the criticism of it was both poorly formed and lacking justification.
I feel like this sort of reaction reflect poorly on our community and detracts from the conversation.
What you're saying is fair. The poster who called it "casual racism" may well have been jumping to conclusions. It's totally possible they didn't use the most generous interpretation of OP's words hastily accused them of something that was not intended or even present in OP's statement.
If they were alleging bias or bigotry based on nationality, it's not the dictionary definition of racism but it's something equally bad. You and I both know what they were actually alleging, right? So nitpicking the specific term they used is counterproductive to the discussion - especially when there isn't an easy, single word to describe bigotry based on nationality or national origin.
I'm objecting to the logic that goes "racism = bad, X group isn't a race but a nationality/ethnicity/religion/<something else immutable whose -phobia word isn't well known>, therefore this != racism, therefore this != bad". I know you mean well and I hope you understand where I'm coming from.
I'm perfectly willing to believe this is a common thing in Indian culture, but sharing feelgood rags to riches stories involving seizing opportunities with smart capitalists is also a large part of the raison d'etre of HN...
I’m not sure I that “Indian” is a “race” for any common definition of the word. It’s a nationality, but my my relatively uninformed perspective it appears that there are many ethnic and cultural groups that comprise it.
More importantly, you seem to be attributing malice to the GP. They are noticing a cultural difference and asking for context. While their choice of phrasing may seem to some of us to be “problematic”, it looks to me that they are asking a reasonable and valid question.
I’ve noticed that these sorts of “feel good”/“just so” stories are very common in Asian cultures. I’ve seen many short movies from Thailand where the downtrodden underdog ends up doing a hugely positive thing and ultimately being appreciated for it. If memory serves, some of them are produced by the state itself.
I have no idea what role they serve in their culture, but it’s different enough from my own to be an interesting phenomenon.
I certainly don’t think asking about it is a bad thing.