Why is moderation so heavy ham fisted on this site? I've read the entire thread (as it gives a good idea what to expect as a tourist there) and I have yet to find a comment from anyone that could possibly break some silly rule. People here are intelligent adults, and if something hurts their "feelings" too bad.
People need free discussion, ESPECIALLY during this scamdemic where everyone is seriously on edge.
Edit: If people get banned they just open up a new account. I've lost track how many accounts I've gone thru over the years. Yes, many were banned for unknown/irrational reasons, but the point is people just open a new account and done.
If that's true, it's because this community hasn't yet gone too far down the path to brain death followed by heat death, which has traditionally been the fate of internet communities. The HN guidelines are a way of attempting to stave off that fate: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so....
Swipes like "What are you talking about", "Wrong", "You’re inventing things and twisting reality", "The ridiculous part is your comment", "Are you for real", "What are you talking about", "Your statement has no connection to reality", "You apparently have not read enough" (all of which unnameduser1 managed to post in just this thread!) are obviously against the HN guidelines, which ask people to be kind, not to call names, and so on: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
It's our experience that when internet commenters come with sharp elbows in this way, it has negative effects on community. Perhaps you feel that these things are no big deal—certainly judgments can differ. But usually people who think 'no big deal' are deriving their standards from what works well in smaller, more cohesive communities. My favorite example of that is rugby players who beat the crap out of each other and then go out drinking together afterwards. Other examples might be an academic colloquium where the participants go hard after each other's ideas, or literary circles where people trade barbed witticisms. Or simply just regular watercooler conversation or talking smack with friends.
All of those environments are richer and able to sustain a much wider range than we can here. It may not feel like it, but HN is a broadcasting channels to millions of people. Broadcasting channels can't function the way that closed, intimate environments can—they are much too incohesive. People are far quicker to hear things that haven't actually been said (or meant), have extreme reactions, respond in kind or worse, and we end up with a Tacoma Narrows Bridge effect.
So yeah, we have to operate with safety factors that to some extent make discussion more bland (a definite cost) but have the effect of preserving the community for relatively high-signal communication, as opposed to shallow hostility, which eventually leads to screaming matches and then, as I said, heat death.
Moderating HN as if it didn't need those safety factors would in my opinion be a big mistake.
If that seems wrong to you, it's probably because you're assuming a degree of stability that doesn't exist here. This is an easy assumption to make, because if X doesn't seem so bad, it's natural to think "what's wrong with X" and feel like the moderators are "heavy ham fisted" for scolding X. The problem is that X is not an end state in the state machine.
If it were merely a few sharp elbows, maybe that wouldn't be a big deal—but large internet forums are not stable this way. You can't stop at sharp elbows, because when people feel affronted, they escalate. Sharp elbows lead to nose punches, then brawls, and so on. If we start to go down that road, the most desirable and intelligent users will simply stop coming, leading to a higher concentration of low-signal/high-noise behavior, which will accelerate the feedback loop, and before long there will be no one left who feels that "people here are intelligent adults".
If anyone wants more explanation, here are some past ones:
Not ridiculous at all. Size of island doesn’t matter. The court is on mainland. Police station where resort filed complaint is where the guy has to go to hear the charges and to make his own statement. All ok so far.
The ridiculous part is your comment about the proceeding and size of island. The charges for violations of laws don’t get smaller the smaller the island is.
There is more to this case. And I’m just summarizing from the statement published by the resort:
- customer argued about corkage fee for beverages brought from outside.
- customer left and drank beverages outside without needing to pay corkage
- customer made inappropriate and defamatory comments on online platforms.
- Some of the comments were taken down by the platforms as they clearly violated terms
- resort management tried to contact him to resolve the matter
See more:
From my own experience with complaints and the legal system
a) lots of people write realistic, truthful and harsh negative reviews but don’t get sued for defamation
b) one doesn’t just get dragged to court
c) no matter if direct contact was attempted, if a filing is made at police station, the police call the defendant and he has to appear to get the charges read and to make a statement.
d) there are usually several negotiations at police station to settle matters without having to go to court or even starting a civil or criminal proceeding
e) if no agreement is reached then it becomes a real case. Also there is arbitration in civil cases
f) general legal experience, not related to the case: foreigners not obeying local laws and regulations does result in a rude awakening. This is the case in any country.
g) western countries specially USA have very strict local police and court rules. Try to miss a court appointment there and compare.
h) technically the defendant may be charged with not just defamation but also with violating cybercrime laws (more serious)
i) Not sure why this clickbait populist article is given so much attention. It’s badly researched, badly written. Classic “blogger - wannabe journalist” piece. A new low for Yahoo News.
Nobody forced the guy to come and work in Thailand. He isn’t a tourist though. If he works here he should know about the laws. Ignorance is not protection against the laws.
We see the same with many foreign tourists who come and assume they can ride motorcycles without valid driving license and experience. Lots of them injured and asking for money in gofundme pages to pay hospital bills since insurance won’t cover illegal behavior.
If I were to take your way of thinking then USA should be also on travel warning list. A (Canadian) foreigner living there was killed when she called police to report someone breaking into her house. However she was killed by police. I think that’s a bit more drastic than being arrested for (allegedly) not showing up in person to the police station as per report.
The law is sometimes abused by people but it’s not draconian.
Defendants are usually called and asked to appear at police station to make their own statement. Very civilized way of handling.
Then you have most likely two times there to negotiate with the person who filed report.
If nothing comes out of it, and only then, criminal charges are filed and investigated.
A judge has to write an arrest warrant and does it if the defendant didn’t answer to calls by police to appear.
Then and only then they can arrest him. He would have been brought to the station, went to jail for not following proceeding and he got out on bail.
So far this seems like a very appropriate handling.
Also I’m sure that before the case starts the judge usually ask both parties if this can be negotiated first. They have more critical cases than to deal with stupid posts on social media.
If no agreement can be reached then there is a trial and it’s not guaranteed that defendant would get 2y in prison unless is unreasonable. He has a lot of influence there. His reaction will determine the proceedings and he will get a fair trial.
You’re inventing things and twisting reality. People are less likely to get in trouble with the law in Thailand than to get shot by police in the US.
So please let me know how reasonable it is for foreigners in USA to get killed by police when calling 911 and reporting a break in.
I am not questioning weather or not the law have been followed, but if the law it self is just.
I think its draconian that a person can get arrested because someone accuses them of libel (they have not even been convicted).
Why is people getting pressured at the police station (it is a pressure that the accuser can force people to go to a police station) to make a settlement very civilized(I would not think the police should be involved at all)?
I think it would be healthy for tourists to consider the laws of the country they visit before visiting them, and don't visit/spend their money in countries with harsh laws.
I also don't think the american justice system sounds that great (but I am also not american).
Your assumptions are just assumptions = not backed by facts.
In reality he could be Elvis born again and also to him laws would still apply.
If the resort would have made up the comments they say he posted, then they would be in much more legal trouble than he is now.
From statements that were posted as screenshots he might be also technically liable for violations of cybercrime act. But that hasn’t been announced or he hasn’t been charged yet for that.
From where I’m standing, the guy looks like someone who went overboard to not just complain but incriminate himself. That’s what counts.
Honestly, every business has customers that complain. You can’t please everyone. But if someone were to make certain statements about my business, employees etc, I would also use my legal rights to fight abuse.
I have myself complained for decades very harshly about other business on social media, their own TW/FB/Google profiles and haven’t been sued by anyone.
It would be interesting what the guy can state as his side of the story apart of the incriminating screenshots from online platforms.
